Number of active BBC BASIC users

[RichardRussell]

Back in December 2016 David Williams posted a poll asking "Roughly how many active BB4W users do you think there are?". In his covering note he said this: "I voted for #2 (17 to 29), but I feel it's closer to 17 than 29!".

It's interesting to speculate on how that number might have changed in the intervening three-and-a-half years. It's difficult to get an accurate handle on the total number of users, as sources of reliable statistics are hard to come by. I know pretty much exactly how many people have purchased BB4W since its release in 2001, but obviously I have no idea how many have continued to use it up to the present (it must be a tiny proportion). I cannot even begin to guess how many people may be using the free trial version, or indeed how many may be using BBCSDL (which is free anyway). I can discover the numbers of downloads, but I don't think that tells me very much.

A slightly more reliable source of data is how many people seek advice or support. Although by no means all users will have needed to seek help here or at the discussion group or by private email, I would guess that roughly the same proportion do so now than have in the past. So by taking David's base figure of around 20 users at the end of 2016, and assuming it has fallen since then roughly in proportion to the change in the number of posts and emails, one can come to a tentative figure.

Sadly if one applies that metric the figure I get to, rounded to allow for all the uncertainties, is close to zero! So my best guess, for what it's worth, of the total number of current, active, users of 'my' BBC BASICs in the world, is none! Of course it's unlikely to be precisely that number, so don't bother to post to say "you're wrong, I'm still using it!". But as a figure that I can use to guide me in decisions about future developments etc. it's probably near enough.

So inevitably I conclude that there's not the slightest point continuing development of BBCSDL, or of my new Console Mode editions, or to contemplate any more maintenance updates to BB4W. Indeed there's no point keeping the web site and other online resources open, or even of keeping the various domain names (e.g. bbcbasic.co.uk) 'alive'.

Does anybody disagree with this assessment? If there are no replies at all I think that will be all the proof I need!

[mikeg]

There are over 100 users. Its easy to assume that simply because of the traffic in this forum on certain subjects. Some subjects get viewed so many times that, I could even guess there may be 1000 users. They could be just very selective of what they view, and I could point out many posts that could prove close to 1000 users.
10000 views on the radio button subject ??????
Just scroll down this link:

http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=9

There MUST be over 1000 users.

The other thing I have noticed is these numbers are significant considering you set up this forum at around the same time as I set up my forum.

* I haven't been able to command the high level of interest that your forum gets. (although, it does get traffic)

* You have a large group of people who follow you. They may not post, but they follow your forums and are always looking at the posts. (some more than others)

I am certain that you only need to show something spectacular in a demo and the traffic would sky rocket on the subject. ( it already has on many posts)

I think there is over 1000 users

[RichardRussell]

Some subjects get viewed so many times that, I could even guess there may be 1000 users.

The number of views means nothing, they are almost all by bots which are indexing the forum, not by humans. Also, multiple views by the same person/bot are counted, so for example if I post a message and then read it a couple of times to check for typos, that counts as at least two views!

There MUST be over 1000 users.

The forum only has 299 'members'! This is the total number of people who have ever joined; the vast majority no longer have any interest but there is no mechanism for them to resign, so the number never falls!

When David posted his poll back in 2016 the top selection he offered was 70-199, he didn't even allow for the possibility that there could be more than that, so unlikely was it.

I recently tried to get a reliable figure for the number of active members of this forum (not the number of BBC BASIC users) by posting a poll to which everybody could respond and in which nobody could object to voting. I should be able to make the assumption that every active member of this forum voted - why wouldn't they? The total number of votes was six!

[mikeg]

I should be able to make the assumption that every active member of this forum voted - why wouldn't they? The total number of votes was six!

I didn't realize there was a vote. ( I must have been distracted.)
With all the distractions currently in media, I am absolutely certain that people would be casually just interacting with what ever catches the eye. I know people that will just use what they want and wont interact personally. I would assume they are in their own spaces.
As for the bot solution, I understand how 1 person can add a view by revisiting a post and I understand a bot doing so, but a bot should only be doing so due to searches and some of those searches would be interested people looking for such a tool or subject.

I don't believe bots would just on their own do a random search for specific topics more than others for no reason. I don't believe a poll could be accurate in any way. You would have to factor in how many people downloaded your BBCSDL and how many people bought BBC BASIC for Windows. Getting a accurate estimate would be likely unlikely. I still think there is over 1000 users (casual, occasional, ect)

I could say there is interest, as there is over 100 members in my FB group alone that was made just for promoting using BBCSDL.
Also, seeing how hard it is to find a flexible programming platform that is easy to use, I am pretty certain there is far more users.

[Edja]

I know pretty much exactly how many people have purchased BB4W since its release in 2001

Would it be an intrusion on privacy if you would send a direct email to all who once have purchased your BB4W asking

• if they still use it?

• if they are aware of the existing sources of information ?

As a user myself I would consider this a nice initiative and certainly not too much to ask of a user considering all the effort and care that you have shown over the years to support all of them, active or not.
I seem to remember from previous communications that you are hesitant to send out unsollicited e-mails but I can hardly imagine anyone to object if you add your motivation for asking.

Edja

[RichardRussell]

I didn't realize there was a vote.

I have at least twice given detailed instructions for how to configure this forum to email you when any new post appears; that's how I find out about them. I would expect any 'keen' member to have done that too, so they should at least have been aware of the poll. Even if a few people chose not to vote, it's not going to boost the number of active members significantly above six!

a bot should only be doing so due to searches and some of those searches would be interested people looking for such a tool or subject.

No, search engines spider sites like this all the time to build their indexes, it's got nothing to do with specific searches being made.

[RichardRussell]

Would it be an intrusion on privacy if you would send a direct email to all who once have purchased your BB4W

As I understand it, that's no longer allowed under GDPR. I would have had to seek and receive specific permission from them to use their email address for that purpose when they made their original purchase.

I can hardly imagine anyone to object if you add your motivation for asking.

It's not a case of whether they would object, but of it being illegal!

[mikeg]

they should at least have been aware of the poll. Even if a few people chose not to vote

I have over 110 members on my Cross platform Facebook group and they would get personal notifications every time a post with link is made. A small fraction take the time to even check what it is. There is nothing more interactive and personal than a Facebook notification. I know of some people that take Facebook breaks and I actually myself took a break from everything on internet during the worst times we are goin through.

I do admit there was a time when I disconnected from a lot due to past economic and social problems with the planet.
Things are getting better (sorta) and I am more engaged so I will be more interactive and supportive.
I understand people should respond if they are interested in the product, but being interested in what is provided doesn't mean they will interact.

[RichardRussell]

being interested in what is provided doesn't mean they will interact.

OK, but it works both ways! If they can't be bothered to check the forum when a new post appears, should I count them as 'active' members? Keeping the forum open for the benefit of members who don't actually visit it doesn't make much sense.

Incidentally, nobody has asked me to resume posting announcements here (assuming they saw the announcement that I was going to stop).

[mikeg]

Incidentally, nobody has asked me to resume posting announcements here

I do like it when I see announcements. I do look for them more often, as it tells me that you haven't left or quit.

I do wish for it to continue. I am a follower and a fan. I am responding on this thread. It shows I care and I believe others do too.

I would like to see this great forum continue.