Ending support for MacOS

[Richard Russell]

I understand that the latest version of MacOS Sequoia makes it impossible to sideload apps like BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0, and indeed any applications built using it. Seemingly it doesn't matter that BBCSDL is signed, which it is; to be installed it also has to be notarized, whatever that means. Evidently the owner of the Mac is no longer the final arbiter of what can be run.

Of course BBCSDL is Open Source, so if somebody has the necessary understanding and credentials to build a notarized version they probably could. But that seems unlikely to happen (and it wouldn't help applications built using BBCSDL). Incidentally I think that 'notarized' apps also have to be 'hardened' apps, one consequence of which is that the embedded assembler in BBC BASIC can't be used.

I imagine that this change to MacOS will affect a lot of other applications, and will make some users pretty angry, but Apple is a law unto itself in such matters. They no doubt justify it on the grounds of improving the 'security' of their users, but if it means those users can no longer run a useful application that they used to be able to run, they might not see it that way.

[Flatlander]

(Assuming we are talking about the same thing.)

In order to successfully install/run bbcsdl on my Mac last week, after it refused to install I had to:
open Settings App/Privacy & Security

Scrolling down to the bottom it showed that it had refused to install bbcsdl, and it gave me the option to install/run anyway.

Also after every reboot.

[Richard Russell]

Scrolling down to the bottom it showed that it had refused to install bbcsdl, and it gave me the option to install/run anyway.

Indeed, until now you have been able to override the Gatekeeper restrictions that way, or simply by holding down the Ctrl key when initially launching the app. That is referenced at the BBCSDL web page, where it says: "‡ On a Mac you will need to override the "unidentified developer" security warning; there are instructions for doing that here".

But my understanding is that in MacOS Sequoia 15.1 (released on 28th October 2024) this override capability has been removed, and there is no way of running non-notarized apps like BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0. I learned about it from the YouTube video linked below, but If it's not accurate or there's a workaround he didn't mention I would be interested to receive more details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6HZlpPGFf0

[Richard Russell]

Another YouTube video about the change. It's depressing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT_ePyytBtc

[Flatlander]

Sorry, I should have said. I just double-checked. I am running MacOS Sequoia 15.1 on M1 Macbook Air. All is good after going into Settings as above.

Maybe they mean a 15.1.x beta or something.

[Richard Russell]

I am running MacOS Sequoia 15.1 on M1 Macbook Air. All is good after going into Settings as above.

I think you said earlier that you had to re-enable it after every reboot, which would be unacceptable for most people I would have thought (unless you're the kind who never turns your Mac off).

As you can imagine, there is a lot of discussion about this change at the moment. Some people think it is more likely to be a bug than deliberate, on the basis that (a) It would be unusual for such a major change to happen at a minor update from 15.0 to 15.1, (b) There was apparently no reference to it in the 15.1 release notes and (c) The error message you get is very geeky and not what you expect from a slick Apple UI.

I have also seen one or two other people say, like you, that they can still install un-notarized apps on 15.1, but they seem to be in the minority. The other extreme is people who say it is a deliberate ploy by Apple to gauge reaction (if it's that, they can be in no doubt now!). One complication is that BBCSDL is signed, but it is not notarized, which perhaps makes a difference.

So I guess we will just have to wait and see how this pans out, but it is undoubtedly the way major OSes are going. Apparently Google is planning to phase out APKs on Android, and Microsoft is moving towards blocking or restricting apps not installed from the Windows Store. Eventually this will be the death-knell for BBC BASIC and other independently-developed programming languages.

[Richard Russell]

One complication is that BBCSDL is signed, but it is not notarized, which perhaps makes a difference.

Some more online chat suggests that signing the app (which I do anyway), even if not notarized, is helpful in resolving this issue.