Request by Richard to return

[DDRM]

Hi Folks,

In the absence of loud screams, I've put everyone except administrators on moderation, for a trial period. I'm hoping that will include me when I'm not logged in as an administrator. [Edit: yes, it does. For this post only I've approved it myself].

Feel free to comment by post/private message.

Best wishes,

D

[RichardRussell]

Feel free to comment by post/private message.

I just want to say publicly that this is very much not the outcome I wanted: moderating everybody seems a drastic and unfortunate step. Perversely it has come about as a result of me requesting that I be able to post unmoderated (with the condition that one or two other members are moderated), something that David was not prepared to agree to for the reasons he gives.

I do understand why it is felt by the admin(s) that I should be moderated. David outlined some of the reasons in his post here although I think experience has shown them not to be entirely valid (for example, after my posts are approved their timestamps and positions in the thread still make it appear that I replied first). He has more recently added that he considers me guilty of having posted inflammatory messages to the forum in the past.

But I would want to point out that I am the author of the products that this forum purports to support, I own the domain name via which the forum is reached, and I pay for the hosting and bandwidth that allow the forum to exist and function. Not only that but both BBC BASIC for Windows and BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 have links to the forum in their Help menus, making it appear to have 'official' status.

Sadly those factors seem not to be sufficient to override the other considerations. I entirely accept that the admin has absolute authority to run the forum as he wishes, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

[RichardRussell]

Message deleted.

[RichardRussell]

This message has been re-written because in its original form it was rejected by the moderators, I think because its tone was seen as too negative. I hope this version will be more acceptable.

In these difficult and uncertain times it is everybody's responsibility to do what they can to help. One small contribution I can make is to facilitate the lifting of the forum's 'all user moderation' status. I think removing moderation would be of particular value now for two reasons:

• It would eliminate the (hopefully small) risk that the moderator(s) cannot perform their message approval duties because of illness. If that were to happen the forum would cease to function.
• It would greatly improve the responsiveness and usability of the forum, which could be of value to people stuck at home who are occupying their time by doing some BBC BASIC programming. At the moment it commonly takes 12 hours or more for a message to be approved.

The sole reason for everybody being moderated is to make it possible for me to remain a member (it was not my preferred option, but it was the only one the admin would agree to) so I am proposing that I voluntarily leave the forum. Once I am no longer a member there should be no reason for the moderation to be maintained.

Hopefully this will only be a temporary measure and I will be able to re-join when more normal circumstances resume. If that implies the reintroduction of all-user moderation then, so be it.

[RichardRussell]

I thought it might be helpful to collect public comments in one place for reference; there may be others that I have missed or which were subsequently deleted. If you want to read them 'in context' they can all be found by searching the old forum:

"Yes, Richard is the author. But there will need to be greater tolerance, patience, forgiveness and some thicker skins all round, from all parties in order for it work (in my humble opinion)"

"The problem was people being driven away, especially new people, when Richard ran things."

"I should point out that you won't be doing Richard any favours if you let him come back and moderate again btw, he'll simply dig himself straight back into the same old hole"

"The discussion group link from BB4W points to groups.io so that appears to be his official support forum for his paid program so that would seem to be the place to ask direct BB4W questions for him."

"this forum like the previous ones has become an Ask Richard page. I am sure you would like more contributors so I would suggest that you back off unless someone does actually Ask Richard. Let others give answers"

[DDRM]

Hi Richard (and all),

Fair enough, but I could pull together a much longer list of positive, supportive, posts, expressing how much they value your contribution to the forum.

Best wishes,

D

[RichardRussell]

Fair enough, but I could pull together a much longer list of positive, supportive, posts

Not ones that go into such excruciating detail you coudn't! Yes I did see a few short and sweet posts of the "I think Richard should be allowed to return" kind, but the thing about the ones I listed (and others that I couldn't find again or have been deleted) is the strength of feeling, often really passionately expressed. If one judges the weight of an argument by the force with which it is delivered, I cannot remain a member.

The silly thing is that when I asked to return (hence triggering this thread) I had completely forgotten about the majority of those comments. On actively searching them out and re-reading them (which was a very painful experience) I realised that I had no justification for asking to return in the first place. Simply doing so was an insult to those who feel so strongly.

Of course if any of the authors of the above listed comments were to say that they had changed their minds, and now thought that, after all, I should remain a member and be allowed to post, I would have to reconsider. But I suspect that none of their opinions have altered since.

[RichardRussell]

Can I remind everybody that the hosting package which supports this forum comes up for its annual renewal on 2nd July, so we have just over a month to make a decision about its future. I don't think we've moved on much from the previous discussions (as typified by the response below) which concluded that if I am permitted to post, unmoderated, the forum becomes an 'ask Richard' page and virtually nobody else contributes. Alternatively if I am moderated (or excluded) the forum becomes much more lively and active, but then I'm not inclined to pay for its hosting!

One possible way out, which has only recently become an option, might be to move across to the StarDot forum(s). They were originally intended for Acorn and BBC Micro related discussions (hence the name) and references to BBC BASIC for Windows and BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0, whilst tolerated, were strictly off-topic. However after a recent reorganisation a new sub-forum "classic languages (e.g. BASIC) on non-acorn platforms: for discussion of bbc basic for windows/sdl, brandy and more" has been created, which would embrace the catchment of this forum.

Any thoughts?

this forum like the previous ones has become an Ask Richard page. I am sure you would like more contributors so I would suggest that you back off unless someone does actually Ask Richard. Let others give answers. I know lots of them will be crap, and that is OK so long at it gets sorted eventually. You can certainly step in if it doesn't get resolved and again I would appeal that you do it in a friendly way. We are not at school any more, and indeed today's teachers would soon be out of a job if they replied as you typically do. I know, I teach part time and haven't been fired, yet! Putting peoples back up does not encourage a second or subsequent submission. It closes down further involvement.

[RNBW]

Because of Richard's medical condition, sooner or later we were going to come to the situation where he could no longer contribute. I realise that we are not there yet. However, when this does happen, it will be necessary to consider where BB4W and BBCSDL go. Clearly at this time Richard will not wish to fund a forum to which he can't contribute and he is alreadu thinking along these lines.

As I see it the options are:

1. Someone else funds the forum. In the few days since Richard's post, mine is the first response, so I'm not too hopeful.
2. As Richard suggests, use Stardot.
3. Start up a new forum on a free platform such as ProBoards
4. Don't do anything, which will probably mean Richard will go his own way, this forum will close and BB4W and BBCSDL will no longer have a forum.

I'm much older than Richard, so I'm not the one to progress this, but if members want BB4W and BBCSDL to continue, then someone should take it on board either as a group or individually.

[RichardRussell]

3. Start up a new forum on a free platform such as ProBoards

That happened some time ago. Kendall Down's BBC BASIC forum is at Freeforums.net which is part of ProBoards. When this forum was out of action for a week or so recently, visits were automatically redirected there.