Adopt-an-Example-Program proposal

Here you can link to screenshots and demos etc. of programs made using BBC BASIC
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JeremyNicoll
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Re: Adopt-an-Example-Program proposal

Post by JeremyNicoll »

Hated Moron wrote: Mon 12 Jun 2023, 08:37 It was entirely your choice to add REMs, I never asked for it (I didn't, nor would I wish to, specify any particular process); it's a perfectly good way of recording notes about how the code works. but others may wish to trust their own memory or use another approach.
If the adopters of programs merely look at them, fathom out how they think they work, then try to remember that .... what use is that (perhaps considerable) effort to anyone else? Surely the adopters need to write something down about how they think 'their' programme works, in a form that anyone else can immediately see.

REMs are probably the best way, as they would be inline with the programme code. If one writes notes elsewhere and the code ever changes it's much less likely that anyone will update the notes and keep them in-sync.

Also, if it were me investigating how one of these programmes works, I might - apart from REMs - have scattered various PRINT statements (or PRINTs to a file, or most-likely: calls of the Win32 OutputDebugString function, for viewing info via the SysInternals "DebugView" application) though them to track what some of the variables do ... and I might have tied those minor explorations to comments in the notes. All of that is worth preserving, even if it's in a separate copy of the programme.
Hated Moron

Re: Adopt-an-Example-Program proposal

Post by Hated Moron »

JeremyNicoll wrote: Mon 12 Jun 2023, 13:14 If the adopters of programs merely look at them, fathom out how they think they work, then try to remember that .... what use is that (perhaps considerable) effort to anyone else? Surely the adopters need to write something down about how they think 'their' programme works, in a form that anyone else can immediately see.
I disagree. After all I haven't written anything down, if I had none of this would be necessary! So how can I expect anybody else to do what I haven't been prepared to do myself? If I tried to impose some kind of formal process, what effect do you think that would have on people's willingness to volunteer? :roll:

There's a vast amount of information in my head which is going to lost for ever soon. Realistically I can't - and nor do I have the slightest intention of attempting to - write that down or otherwise transfer it to somebody else. What I can do is make myself available to answer questions whilst I still can.

All I'm asking is that users choose one or more of the example programs in which they are interested, study the code and if there's anything they don't understand ask me - or anybody for that matter - to explain it. What they do with any knowledge they acquire is entirely up to them, whether that's to keep it in their heads, annotate the program with REMs, write a Wiki article or whatever.
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JeremyNicoll
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Re: Adopt-an-Example-Program proposal

Post by JeremyNicoll »

Hated Moron wrote: Mon 12 Jun 2023, 13:52
JeremyNicoll wrote: Mon 12 Jun 2023, 13:14 If the adopters of programs merely look at them, fathom out how they think they work, then try to remember that .... what use is that (perhaps considerable) effort to anyone else? Surely the adopters need to write something down about how they think 'their' programme works, in a form that anyone else can immediately see.
I disagree. After all I haven't written anything down, if I had none of this would be necessary! So how can I expect anybody else to do what I haven't been prepared to do myself? If I tried to impose some kind of formal process, what effect do you think that would have on people's willingness to volunteer? :roll:
I'm not sure that there has to be something as formal as a "formal process", but not suggesting a common way that any/all adopters can share what they've learned, or think they have learned, about a programme might actually have made people uninclined to take part.

Hated Moron wrote: Mon 12 Jun 2023, 13:52 All I'm asking is that users choose one or more of the example programs in which they are interested, study the code and if there's anything they don't understand ask me - or anybody for that matter - to explain it. What they do with any knowledge they acquire is entirely up to them, whether that's to keep it in their heads, annotate the program with REMs, write a Wiki article or whatever.
I think that others thought the /simplest/ thing they could do (with a program that's had REMs added) was send it to you. You've made it clear that you wouldn't want there to be a formal requirement or expectation on you that you would then "vet" such things. But I don't see why you couldn't then added the REMmed copy of the program (or separate file of notes if someone did that instead) to the example code supplied with successive versions of your product. Or upload them to another page on your website and provide a link to that page, or something. Otherwise no-one looking for help with any of these programs in future is going to be able to find the hints that the adopters gleaned from the code.
Hated Moron

Re: Adopt-an-Example-Program proposal

Post by Hated Moron »

JeremyNicoll wrote: Mon 12 Jun 2023, 14:10 not suggesting a common way that any/all adopters can share what they've learned, or think they have learned, about a programme might actually have made people uninclined to take part.
I disagree, but so be it.
I think that others thought the /simplest/ thing they could do (with a program that's had REMs added) was send it to you.
I've no idea why they should have thought that. I never suggested it, and never thought it myself.
But I don't see why you couldn't then added the REMmed copy of the program (or separate file of notes if someone did that instead) to the example code supplied with successive versions of your product.
I wouldn't want to bloat the package like that. After all not even the Help manual or the Beginners' Tutorial are bundled with BBCSDL, unlike BB4W they have to be accessed online. So the best place for it would be as an online resource like the Wiki, but that's for others to decide not me.
Otherwise no-one looking for help with any of these programs in future is going to be able to find the hints that the adopters gleaned from the code.
Of course they are, they can ask here!